They describe Deep roots before moving on to a description of the farm. Paul mentions that there is currently no water on the land, but he plans on bringing back a creek. Jocelyn describes how lush the undergrowth on the land felt in comparison to some other areas she has been to. She has taken a lot of pictures.

They talk about the equipment that will be brought to the land: a track hoe for doing the earthworks, an electric cart (aka UTV) for snow removal and road shaping, an electric Peterson sawmill, a propane generator to avoid gasoline spills, just to name a few. Paul mentions that he does not see the need for a tractor since he will have the track hoe. A tipi will be installed on the land in a few days. The plan is to have Ernie and Erica build a rocket mass heater to heat it. A couple already volunteered to spend next winter in the tipi.

They then talk about money streams and the goal to get out of debt as soon as possible. Paul mention about auctioning the creek name or the mountain name at BC. Paul then outlines the requirements to get on the land: listen to most of his podcasts. He thinks that it will avoid wasting of time explaining everything, act as a jetpack for moving projects forward, and reduce conflicts.

Paul and Jocelyn move to the hot topic of workshops. Jocelyn has created threads about the different ones that are in the plans on Paul’s farm forum. They then put a lot of emphasis on keeping the location of the land secret to avoid unannounced visits. They touch the subject of exit plan aka parachute.

They talk about some of the projects Pauls has for the land: building lots of berms, hugelkultur raised garden beds, ponds, bringing back streams, building a Wheely bin pooper, building tefas, growing citrus in Montana.

They mention that although they are looking for a lot of seeds, they would rather not have them until they move to BC in June.

Paul talks about the division of the land, even though it will probably not be for a few years and how he renamed the original areas from Organic, Permaculture, Symbiculture, and HUSP to Oehla (Organic entry level area), Perm, Symbu, and Huspa.

Paul clarifies that it will not be possible to do just camping if coming to the land, but that rather, people will have to have listened to podcast and be there to help.

Paul and Jocelyn conclude the podcast by talking about the mission, the home for the humble (year round woofing for pod-people), and village economy.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This is the sequel of Podcast 245 – Review of 2013 Sepp Holzer’s visit part 1. In part 2, Paul and Bill jump right into to talking about the Bozeman event.

He starts by telling us a story about Kristy flying into Bozeman on the same plane as Sepp Holzer, needless to say she was super excited! Sepp was depressed while flying over the Rockies, and said that most of the trees and plants are dying. He gets frustrated because the fixes are so easy and could be transformed within a couple of days.

The Sepp event in Bozeman sold out very fast, it topped out at 50 people and Paul and Permies did a lot of help the even sell out as fast as it did. One of the Permie ticket winners is from Alaska and was able to talk with Sepp about permaculture design using things like crater gardens and earth berms and other techniques he can use to grow food in harsh environments. Sepp shared some of the techniques that he used in Siberia.

Paul was sick when the event started but it did not stop people from wanting to stay in the Permies house, Paul says his house was full of cool people.

The event was hosted at a 50-acre property with a very slight slope and a meandering creek that was dry at parts of the year. The landowner does not have water rights to the creek. Sepp did not really understand the water rights issue, but that may have been because of the language and cultural barrier.

They discussed a pond/lake that Sepp wanted to build on the site. The state and county bureaucratic mess can cause huge problems and Paul tells us that sometimes it is best to ask for forgiveness instead of asking for permission. It is best to do your homework up front before starting your project.

Sometimes the department of making you sad can be a real drag.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul and Neil Bertrando get together to review “Botany in a Day: The Patterns Method of Plant Identification” by Thomas A. Elpel). This is the first of several podcasts all covering this one book. Paul wanted to cover this book via multiple podcasts because he’s owned this book for years and he’s had a hard time really grokking botany with the latin names and such.

The first part of the book was surprisingly accessible–Paul was worried, but it was easy to read. He’s been meaning to read it for some time, having been given a copy long ago. Neil thinks that this book is going to continue to be useful because of the way it is set up–the pattern focus is helpful, and it has great info about herbal uses.

A couple of quick notes: Neil won one of the tickets to go to south Florida for a workshop on financial permaculture. The idea is to get permaculture folks together with people who would like to invest in repairing the planet. Also, Neil will be teaching his fourth PDC (seventh including those he’s taught with others) in March (2013) in Reno, Nevada. Paul and Neil discuss their PDC preference for more technical versus more spiritual PDC activities.

Thomas J. Elpel lives in Montana (yea!) so Paul is especially happy about that. He then notes that there’s a lot of alignment between Montana (intermountain west) and England (?). Neil notes that he has the 5th edition and the book has been adding more species and more information to cover more of North America. A quote: “This field guide is designed to give the reader the big picture of botany and medicinal plant properties. It deals more with patterns among related plants than with the details of specific plants. Because the style of the book is broad, the coverage is also broad.”

Paul has video footage right now of about 140 different species of plants, and knows he needs to start putting more of it out. Neil shares Thomas J. Elpel’s websites: www. hopspress.com and www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com . Neil and Paul hope YOU will go visit those websites (you can check out other books by the same author) because if Mr. Elpel has a big increase in web traffic, then maybe he will share some of his DVDs with Paul for viewing and subsequent podcast-reviewing!

Botany in a Day emphasizes learning plants in family groups, versus some other field guides that might list plants alphabetically or grouped by flower color. If you learn plants in terms of their families, you can learn about shared characteristics and shared functions. If you learn the scientific/latin names of plants, then you will always know which plant you are talking about, even if you are talking to somebody who speaks another language (like Sepp!!). Paul and Neil chat about the awesomeness of Sepp Holzer and what he’s doing in North America with his own unique course of Holzer style permaculture.

“Nobody really cares how you pronounce the words, so just stumble through them however you can.” Paul really likes this quote and plans to use this as defense against pedants. Neil points out that the scientific name of a plant (genus, species) will often give you useful information about the plant. Beyond species and genus there is family, and beyond family there is order, then class, then division. Knowing where a plant stands in this nested hierarchy will also give you useful information. Sometimes families are divided into subfamilies, and sometimes classes are divided into subclasses.

Evolution of plants: “99.9% of everything that ever lived is now extinct.” Wow. When you really start to consider the scale of time for evolution, it’s a little mind blowing. It’s also interesting to learn that 90% of plants are living in symbiosis with fungi. 80% could not survive without their fungal partners! The relationships between plants and particular animals are also fascinating.

Hmm, Neil says a lot of algae are not plants, they are photosynthetic bacteria. Lichens are associations between algae and fungi. They have bright colors from the acids they use to etch into whatever they are on, be it rock, wood or building. Paul has a cool story about symbiotic fungus and pasture grass.

Mosses have no vascular system and reproduce with spores. Sphagnum moss is so acidic, it has antibiotic properties. You can use sphagnum moss to dress a wound (although I’m thinking that would sting) and it is less likely to get infected. (This is a cool thing about this book–he gives lots of practical uses for plants as you go along.)

Ferns have a vascular system and reproduce with spores (also horsetails and club mosses). Back in the day there were horsetail plants 100 feet tall. (!)

Conifers have naked seeds, also the gingko tree and cycads. They are all wind pollinated. Then you get into the flowering plants, more complicated–some are wind pollinated, others are pollinated by a critter. Flowers that depend on animals to pollinate them have incredibly elaborate features to attract the correct critter and then make sure it gets coated in pollen.

Monocotyledons and dicotyledons are usually called monocots and dicots, but that’s just an abbreviation. Monocots have parallel leaf veins and dicots have branched leaf veins. Monocots have fibrous roots and dicots have taproots. A classic monocot is grass, but palm trees are also monocots! A daisy or a tomato or an oak tree are all dicots.

Neil points out that monocots are a good choice for planting on the dam of a pond–the fibrous root system is not going to give you trouble like a tree’s roots could. And with that, the first part of this multi-part book review is done.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul starts by apologizing for not making any podcasts for weeks and weeks. He still has a bit of a cough anytime he tries to talk. Even though he’s not back to normal, he’s just got to tell all of you pod people about the workshop in Bozeman with the mighty, the glorious Sepp Holzer. He’s recording this with Bill Schnieders who prescribes a week in Hawaii for the cough. Paul loves the idea of eating pineapple in Hawaii, or of going to the Bahamas in January, but he has not been to either of these places. There is a lot of permaculture stuff going on in Hawaii, especially if someone is into raw foods.

Paul says he thinks he got sick by being “too nice.” He got sick on a day when he did nothing but help people who did nothing to help him in return. They “tolerated” his help, it doesn’t sound like he felt a lot of love that day. He got a lot of hostility, did a lot of driving and had to stay in a disgusting hotel late at night on the way home to Missoula. He woke up the next morning sick, and so it went for ages. He was sucking on lozenges through the entire Sepp Holzer visit.

Paul has described his eco scale many times. When you get to ecolevel 10, there is one person, and that person is Sepp Holzer. Paul still feels that this is true, and yet, he has (critical) things to say about his experience with Sepp. Last year, he noted that there were a couple of things he would have done differently with the land that Sepp transformed. He would have gone with smaller ponds, going up the hillside, and more behind the house. Sepp took an area that was a massive big flat gravel expanse, a dead zone, and he transformed it. Perhaps he deliberately went there given that he had a limited amount of time. It could be that he concentrated on that area for maximum impact.

Paul adores Sepp, but he seriously disagreed with more than one thing that Sepp did on the land at Bozeman. He was actually starting to feel angry as he watched what happened, such that he removed himself from the area for a while. This could be attributed to artistic differences between Sepp and Paul.

Last year, Jack Spirko came up for Sepp’s workshop in Montana, and he recorded a podcast afterwards in which he expressed how disappointed he was in the experience. Paul agreed that what Jack said was true, but he disagreed with his conclusion (that it wasn’t worth attending a Sepp Holzer event). Paul feels like the information coming from Sepp is so advanced that it’s just really hard to translate it for other people. Bill recalls a concern that some people’s questions were “shot down,” but notes that some of those questions had been asked before (sometimes, less than half an hour before). He suggested that some of the problem may be cultural–europeans are not as open to questions as americans are. The language barrier is also definitely a factor.

Paul recalls that some people were asking “stupid” questions at that workshop, a year ago. Somebody asked Sepp what kind of liner to put in a pond. Bill shares that Sepp is tons of fun when he’s off duty. When he is working, he is very focussed and doesn’t have a lot of patience, doesn’t suffer fools gladly. Paul recalls that he left the party, and had to go back to get Immo. When he got back to the party, Sepp calls out to him “Pole!!” and throws an arm around him and chats to him in German. Somebody handed him a giant bottle of something alcoholic, and he chugged it. There was a scrum of people, hugging and swaying, with Paul in the middle, feeling out of place. Turns out Immo had a new lady friend and didn’t need Paul’s help getting anywhere.

The proof is in the pudding, and when Paul went back the following September and got video of lush green growth on the brand new hugelkultur raised garden beds, with everything beyond it all dry and brown and dormant, well, that was golden. Bill feels like Sepp has forgotten more permaculture than he (Bill) will ever know. Jack complained about paying money and then being asked to plant potatoes, especially that they spent three days on the activity of building and planting hugelkultur beds. Paul notes that Sepp was just trying to get stuff done. Bill watched a recent Sepp video in which he says that you have to just do it yourself (plant the potatoes) and compares it to the training of a chef. This group of people (a LOT of people, over 100, with widely varying knowledge base and experience) put in nearly a kilometer of hugelkultur beds, and that was a lot of work, but the video Paul made with it has 140 thousand views already and is helping to change the world.

Bill points out that folks with capital are interested in permaculture transformation from an investment standpoint. You can take a dry dusty prairie field and turn it into a lake in just a week! Of course, as they see it happening they get drawn into the beauty of it.

Four years ago when Sepp came into town, there were 2 days about building ponds and aquaculture, 2 days about hugelkultur, 2 days about raising animals and preserving meat. Each day had an agenda. Paul got the impression that Sepp didn’t like that. When they were setting up the more recent Montana event, they tried to have an agenda for each day, but Sepp resisted. He shows up, he does his thing, he leaves. He came the day before the workshop, seeing the property for the first time. Paul walked with him for this, but could not understand what Sepp said, even with the help of translators.

Paul kept trying to get him to go back over a story he’d told before, but Sepp kept putting him off. He’s trying to design the property, get the design built, and then also teach a bunch of folks things. It might have been too much for one guy to do. Sepp did eventually talk about how to make the bone sauce, but it was not until the very last day. Bill recalls that it happened after Sepp finally felt like the project was going to get done and there was time. Paul recalls that getting the bone sauce story was the main reason he was there and not getting it until the very last day was frustrating.

Paul feels like there is all sorts of stuff in Sepp’s head that he wants, but there just doesn’t seem to be a good way to get to it. As previously noted, Sepp is not easy to direct. Bill suggests that maybe someday there could be an “advanced” workshop with Sepp. Paul’s not sure if that would help. He recalls Sepp answering “You must read from the book of nature,” in response to his questions and feels like that was a bullshit answer. Pauls remembers asking about curving hugelkultur beds 4 years ago and notes (with some satisfaction) that these days Sepp makes curvy hugelbeds.

Bill tells a story about Sepp in Spain or Portugal (sounds like Portugal) where he was getting serious resistance from the local government with regards to the (massive) size of the lake he was planning. It seemed like all was for naught, and nothing could be done. Sepp took a walk in nature, took a nap, pondered it and woke in the middle of the night with an idea for how to present it to the authorities. He used dark blue for the deeper parts, light blue for shallow parts, and white for wetlands and with this presentation they were willing to give him a green light. It was really the same plan, just framed a different way. Bill’s point is that for Sepp “reading from the book of nature” is a real thing.

Paul recalls trying to explain rocket mass heaters to Sepp. At first, Sepp said it was impossible, and then as they did more explanation, he said that he invented it. Bill figures that the big problem was translation. Paul figures the big problem was genius–many people with truly big ideas have a hard time relating their ideas to just normal folk.

OK, getting on to the 2013 event. Paul recalls that about 18 months ago there was a thread on permies.com that was anti-Sepp. The origin seemed to be a woman in Austria who hired Sepp to transform her land. It didn’t go well and she sued him. The judge ended up putting the woman in jail and giving her land to Sepp. (Bill points out that apparently the woman owed Sepp a lot of money, and that’s why he was given her land.) Paul says that Sepp moved out of the Krameterhof (leaving it to his son) and has moved into this new place. Bill says he’s hoping to see what happens when he travels to Austria. Apparently the place looked pretty messed up immediately after the major earth moving, but it will certainly improve. Paul reports that right after the Montana workshop a year ago, the tribal authority was highly displeased, but Katarina put them off and it started to look lovely.

Bill says that Sepp’s work speaks for itself, and notes some really huge projects that have gone in Eastern Europe, Khazakstan, Russia. Apparently you can see his project in Spain on Google Earth. Bill recalls the lake in Montana looking pretty iffy until an earth mover hit a vein of underground water and the lake filled up in like, three days.

The first leg of Sepp’s 2013 trip was in California. California was great–the property owner had gotten information to Sepp before hand and some Sepp related folks had scouted the place for him. Sepp said that the property (about 17 acres) was “so magnificent” with giant redwoods and such. He pointed out that mushrooms grow well and are a source of income for the area that was growing redwoods. The wood itself is prized and a little bit could be harvested. One of the fallen trees had 474 rings! Sepp talked about just setting up camping spots at some of the most powerful places “energy spots” on the property. He found a spring up the hill–a remarkable resource. There was a more bare area on a south facing slope and Sepp talked about more intensive food production there. They spent a day building model ponds–California law prohibited messing with the creek that ran through the property. Sepp would come by and critique individual’s model ponds–it was a very useful exercise, Bill thought. Paul recalls doing the same thing in his PDC.

After Bozeman was Michigan. It was sort of a side trip, organized by Nathan who is doing great things in Detroit. As part of the Michigan trip, they went to an inner city spot, dilapidated neighborhood, a one day project where they built some hugelbeds and a crater garden, with a single bulldozer. Bill was really impressed by the energy of the neighborhood kids, asking questions of Sepp and getting really good responses from him. On the first day they built a giant hugel bed and a partial crater garden on some private land in Michigan and Bill thinks its going to be tremendous. Bill got to tap a maple tree for the first time, and was told that the original sap is the “coconut water of the Midwest” full of nutrients and such. Sepp got to walk the land and made some suggestions, but couldn’t do a full transformation. Sepp gave a talk at the University of Michigan in a big auditorium, showed his new film and did a long Q&A afterwards–maybe an hour, hour and a half.

Nate told Bill about driving Sepp to the airport and sharing the story of a man who had a near death experience, David Milarch, and is now trying to save the earth by cloning and replanting the oldest and most important trees on earth. Nate said that Sepp was deeply affected by the story, and repeated that David Milarch is doing very important work.

After Michigan was Minnesota. Bill was 2 1/2 weeks into this at this point. He thought that Sepp might have been at his strongest in Minnesota. Sepp was frustrated in that he wanted to do a lot of waterscaping but the permits could not be obtained. They talked about fruit tree grafting and mushroom cultivation. They made the bone sauce to keep deer off of fruit trees. On one evening he consulted with a woman who had a lot of land in Canada–something might be happening there. Unlike in Bozeman, Sepp’s voice was very strong. He gave a public talk at a big brewpub and the place was packed. There was a big snowstorm while he was there, which forestalled any earthworks. He apparently gave a great talk to the city council, telling them they needed to allow people to create water retention landscapes. He gave Mark permission to share the video of the whole talk (which is unusual). Bill notes that when relaxing on this trip Sepp complained that in America “the land of the free” he’s been unable to do what he wants with the land. In Russia he’s had much freer rein to do big things.

In Bill’s view, the whole trip ended on a very positive note in Minnesota, even though they were physically limited by three feet of snow on the ground.

Paul asked about crater gardens. Bill talks about building a really big crater garden on Chad’s property, complicated by the presence of a road that gets salted in the wintertime. When Sepp came and checked it out, he was overall very positive about it.

And, that’s the end of part one. Part two will focus on the Bozeman Montana event.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

He starts off by talking about the water shed death spiral where the soil looses its ability to hold water. Mark identifies three main reasons for that to occur: Compaction, roads, and loss of soil organic matter. He explains that the problem results in streams and springs disappearing.

He then starts talking about soil basic components (sand, silt, and clay) and the very important water stable aggregate. This last component is formed of sand, silt and clay held together mostly by fungi. The water stable aggregate is very important because it holds its form in the presence of water and allows the soil to keep pockets of air instead of turning to pudding. These air pockets are critical to biological life.

Mark explains that gardeners are very accustomed to creating water stable aggregate by adding compost to soil. In his work he uses slashing (the wood bits and branches left over from logging) to restore the aggregate after logging operations. He then explains that spreading slashing helps to decompact the soil and to restore biological activity. In turns this helps to restore the water shed health.

He concludes the presentation talking about road reclamation, deer pressure, and white rot vs. brown rot.

All of the document for the presentation are available at permies.com/mark

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

People kept asking about “dietary restrictions” on this trip.  Paul figured he and Jocelyn should make a podcast to go over food.
“Everything in moderation, including moderation.”  For example, Paul loves pie, but only has it a couple of times a month, because he’s
noticed that pie takes away from his mental clarity.  The big three Jocelyn needs to avoid are soy, dairy and gluten.  She’d also rather
avoid carbs because she doesn’t burn a lot of calories in her work.

Both Paul and Jocelyn are paleo or Weston A Price type eaters.  Paul greatly values organic or better than organic food.  If he can get
pure and raw dairy, that seems much better for him than commercial/pasteurized dairy.  In general Paul avoids all dairy.  He
is big on pastured meats, although he can be fine with good vegan food.  Jocelyn feels a greater need for protein and meat.  She eats
vegetables, meats and fats, mostly.  She has found fermented foods to be very helpful for her health.  Another great thing is wild foods,
like nettles.

Avoiding grains helps both Paul and Jocelyn feel better.  Jocelyn notices more aches and pains the morning after eating grain or even
another starchy food.

Paul starts his day with coffee with either raw cream or coconut milk.  Jocelyn puts organic butter in her coffee!  They’ll have breakfast
later in the morning: greens sautéed in animal fat, onions, eggs, maybe bacon or sausage.  For snacks Paul likes nuts, deviled eggs,
kale chips.  For dinner, meat and vegetables.  No quinoa required! Sweet potatoes are better than regular potatoes, and sunchokes are even better.

No beer, no wine for Paul.  Jocelyn likes wine, but rarely drinks it because she feels it the next day.  Paul will indulge in a stevia
sweetened pop, and enjoys water kefir, a fermented beverage.  Paul is NOT fond of kombucha.  Jocelyn avoids yeast, so that rules out
kombucha and kefir.  Both prefer water as a drink.

Paul loves fruit, and will pick a fruity dessert (pie!) over another one.  Also, just plain fruit: apples, pineapple.

Paul notes that now that he’s no longer cooking for his son, he hardly ever cooks.  He eats “bachelor food” which he turns to only when he’s too hungry to continue.  Paul is open to trying raw food, but he’s not into the complicated preparation needed.  He is a big fan of community meals.  He would much rather stay with local people than stay at a hotel or bed and breakfast, when traveling.  If he feels like he’s going to get the foods he likes, in the way he likes (community meals) then he’s more likely to want to make a trip.  (hint, hint). In summary: meat and vegetables, don’t fear the fat. If you want Paul to come visit, tempt him with paleo food!

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This book, by Azby Brown, is written as a series of stories about the people of the Edo period of Japan, which was from 1603 to 1868.   In the times leading up to the Edo period has many parallels to the world today and how they pulled themselves back from a potentially huge crisis.    The basis of their culture was having ‘just enough’, living simply and zero waste, my like Paul’s ideas for husp (Horticulture of  United States of Pocahontas).

You can purchase the complete 10 part podcast bundle on the Scrubbly site.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

If the Kickstarter can break $100,000 (that’s just 1,000 people buying 4 DVD sets) then Paul will be able to move forward with his plans for world domination by saving the world. (He will be able to finally buy some land in Montana.) Erica points out that Paul is the one that got Caleb, the hot water dude, together with her and Ernie for this workshop (this will be the boom-squish DVD), and that may never happen again. Erica thinks the most popular DVD will be the fire science one, because the stuff on there is so incredibly cool you want to show it to your grandchildren. Paul says the vast majority of buyers are getting all 4 DVDs, with the most popular single DVD being “Sneaky Heat” and the next most popular being the Fire Science. Erica is relieved that the least popular single purchase is Boom-Squish, because it really IS that dangerous. That video is going to have lots of tape of people saying just how incredibly dangerous steam can be. Erica tells Paul he really needs to video his neighbour who actually was present (but not too close) at a steam explosion, for inclusion in the video.

Ernie wants to talk about cookstoves. Last fall at the end of the workshop, they ran an experiment pitting a J-tube rocket stove against a propane turkey cooker. They put the exact same pot on both stoves, half full of water. They lit both stoves at exactly the same time, so the rocket stove had to go through its warming up process before it could really start putting out heat. The propane cooker won by 3-5 minutes. This was a big surprise, and a huge disappointment. (Ernie later notes that they had used wet pine sticks as the fuel in their overconfidence.) Erica wishes they had weighed the propane canister to see how much fuel they went through, because boy that thing was roaring. It was very loud. Then they tried it again, this time having the fire going on both stoves and put pots full of water on at the same time. Also, this time they used hardwood in the rocket stove. This time the rocket stove won. They noticed that the propane stove had a pot skirt and so they made some modifications to the rocket stove, despite severe exhaustion (under extreme pressure from some gigantic guy with a video camera) and the third time the rocket stove boiled the water in less than half the time of the giant propane turkey cooker. They note that they were burning scrap wood from Caleb’s lumber, and the turkey cooker was blasting through massive quantities of very dense fuel.

Paul notes that if they had sunk the stove into the ground, or extended the sleeve, or improved the “tinfoil hat” that they used in the third trial, they could have improved the performance even more. Ernie and Erica note that they could have used more insulation. Then, Erica points out that for actual real life cooking, as opposed to competitive pot boiling, you’d probably want a smaller system, not a more powerful one. When that same stove was used to prepare food for the 40 people at the workshop, the chef needed to do many things to try to moderate the heat output downwards.

Ernie moves on to the coolness of melting carbon steel with a rocket stove, which is also going to be in the Kickstarter DVDs. Mark Vander Meer is a blacksmith, and he looked inside the stove and said “that looks as hot as my forge!” so they put some steel in there and lo and behold it got red hot. In 30 seconds it would get “cherry red” where you could pull it out and pound it or pull it into a new shape. Ernie figures it was running at 2100 degrees Fahrenheit. Mark was amazed that they could achieve forge temperatures burning scrap wood without needing a bellows. A rocket forge is now in the works.

Erica now has a new book(let)! She’s made a booklet on “The Art of Fire,” which she describes as the stuff of the Fire Science Theater “but with even less science.” It’s got a lot of good basic advice about managing fire, from cook fires built while camping to fine tuning a wood stove. If you go to their Scubbly site you will be able to buy it soon.

Erica recently posted to permies.com on the greenhouse thread where she has been sharing some things that she’s learned about using wood heat to warm a greenhouse. Ernie points out that if you build your rocket mass stove into the base of a raised bed, nobody will be walking on it. Erica is looking for people to work with her with an eye towards a future publication, so if you are building a greenhouse, or you have a greenhouse and want to heat it with scrap wood, go check out the thread. You could get a sneak peak at their well-researched greenhouse heating stove plans.

Ernie and Erica are looking for minions! If you would like to learn to build rocket mass stoves to Ernie’s specifications, and you’re really serious about learning, you could learn from the master (and mistress). You need to be cool with following their advice, at least for the first several months. Erica notes that they run into trouble with people who read Ianto’s book where it says that you can have the chimney exit your house low (and look like a dryer vent). She says that WILL work, but only if that particular house doesn’t have this desire to suck air in from openings near the ground after it has been warmed up, say, by your rocket mass heater. This is the sort of thing they have learned from experience and they would like to share this knowledge with others, but it’s nice to have your experience acknowledged. So, if you can hold off on expressing your own fabulous ideas (that you developed after doing some reading and thinking, but have not actually, you know, built yourself) until after you’ve learned the Ernie and Erica way of doing things, they would love to teach you. Paul would love for someone to live in a teepee outside through the winter, heated only by a rocket mass stove, so he could video that.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

About the toxic gunk we rub onto ourselves, plus a bit about diet, and what to do about it. Paul and Jocelyn discuss personal hygiene strategies from their different cultural perspectives. Paul may be presenting himself as an example of germ-conscious but not overly-sensitive ‘guy’. Jocelyn has various sensitivities (sinus, skin, hair, etc) and may, for the purposes of this podcast, be offering herself as an example of someone further toward hyper-sensitive. Societal and cumulative reactions are discussed. Both have gone shampoo and soap-less and both report good results with various amount of detail.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

They also talk about coffee, PIPA/SOPA and piracy, food forest instead of orchard, LED lights, the new forums at Permies, the Sepp event, the book promo and the Daily-ish email.

Paul and Adrien conclude on promoting stuff at Permies for free, but also for money.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

The discussion first focuses on to the how pasteurized milk came to become commonplace in the markets and how raw milk is the ultimate super food. Raw Milk can help with behavior problems, asthma, allergies, constipation, digestive problems, and help people with immune system problems (like cancer). Paul’s brother had an allergy problem until he started drinking the raw milk from his goats. Paul and Sally also talk about how important fat is your diet and the butter fat in full fat milk may give you the fat that you need.

Sally tells us about dentist turned food advocate Weston A. Price who studied healthy, isolated people across the world and what was it in their diets that made them so healthy.

Although there have only been a couple of deaths from raw milk that Sally can think of raw milk farmers are demonized more than other small farmers are. They discuss enormous PR campaigns and scare tactics that they use to make people scared of raw milk.

Paul and Sally move on to discuss fermented foods, washing dishes and green cleaners.

You may want to check out the Raw Milk Symposium, Which is April 5 and 6 in Vancouver, BC Canada.

Credit: Summary prepared by Cassie Rauk

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

Sponsor for this podcast: Pantry Paratus

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul talks about the 3 videos that you can find on Brandon’s website and how he appreciated watching them because of their art, humor and poetry talking about how you can best use pork, starting from the pig in the field to home charcuterie.

He talks about how people get disconnected from their food, and how the need for love and care to the animals can extend to eating them.

Then they go on talking about Brandon’s videos compared to a DVD called ‘Pig in a Day‘ that they just watched prior to the podcast.

They talk about butchering technics and pig division and how it is all connected to regional culinary practices.

They go on discussing Hot Dog manufacturing which leads to a major part on sanitized meat versus the need of bacteria for good quality meat processing.

Brandon gives his thoughts on the ‘pig in a day‘ DVD and talks about his love for small scale butchery, and the beauty in traditional practices. Nitrates in meat is discussed with curing and fermenting techniques for the meat.

Then they examine the killing and butchering of the pig step by step, with some anecdotes from Paul.

And finally they end the podcast with a list of notes from Paul :

• Legal practices to harvest your pigs
• Drying meat in the sun
• Brandon traditional services he offer to small scale farmers
• Pigs flexibility to thrive in different environments
• Barbed wires fences
• Tools to use and sharpening technics dvd
• Jocelyn discovering Rillette, and Brandon describing the process of making Rillette and more …

Richard sum up with the importance of ethical treatment to make the pigs happy for a better quality meat.

Credit: Summary prepared by Bart Glumineau

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

Sponsor for this podcast: Pantry Paratus

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

Sponsor for this podcast: Pantry Paratus

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul answers Ben Lawson’s questions. They talk about podcast issues, illustrations for the Empire, possible Zello Permies channel, and Paul’s non-consulting services, and hugelkultur promotion.

If you want to discuss this podcast, please go to this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul answers Ben Lawson’s questions. They talk about different paths to promote Paul’s work and permaculture. Paul talks gives updates about different things, including the land search and the podcast.

This podcast continues in part 3.

If you want to discuss this podcast, please go to this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul and Ben jump right in by discussing alternatives to using newspaper and cardboard when creating a new garden bed rapidly. Paul tells Ben that it is better to add a bit of texture to the landscape and using resources you already have in the surround land. They then move into discussing HUSP and Paul’s search for land.

Ben has big dreams on using a hydro-seeding techniques creating a quick seeding of permaculture approved planting. While it is an “instant farm” kind of idea, Paul thinks there may be permaculture applications in the future.

Ben asks Paul what he would do if he had a Blue Sky Budget, meaning he has unlimited money, and total public approval. Listen in for a bit of Paul’s plans on world domination and plants for promoting permaculture.

Ben and Paul then discuss the movie Plastic Planet, although Paul has not seen it yet, he says he is going to add it to his list of films to watch. They then move on to discuss growing grains, to make flours for pies in particular.

This podcast continues in part 2.

If you want to discuss this podcast, please go to this thread at Permies.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

Sponsor for this podcast: Pantry Paratus

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

You can discuss this podcast on this thread at Permies.

Sponsor for this podcast: Pantry Paratus

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

One of his most famous quotes is you can solve all the worlds problems in a garden.

They discuss the use of paper and cardboard in permaculture. Geoff recommends that you only use it once, if at all, and then move on to a permanent solution. Paul worries about the toxicity of the paper, Geoff tells us to trust in the carbon cycle that happens when the paper starts to decompose.

Geoff and Paul discuss the vast amount of high quality knowledge that is on the internet about permaculture. But we have to be conscious of information overload. Geoff says the key is to get the right information at the right time. If you sign up on his new website, he will send you new information in the right order.

Geoff then goes on the explain the difference between his PRI website and his new site: PRI is a news site that helps people set up PRI in their area and GeoffLawton.com is Geoff’s personal thoughts and experiences about permaculture. They touch on how Paul’s sites and Geoff’s sites have things in common and how they do differ, but they are both parts of the same whole.

By the way, Paul and Geoff are not in a competition, they want to collaborate on projects and share permaculture information with each other and the rest of the web.

They move on to discussing different parts of Geoff’s video. One part shows a paddock shift system and chickens. They then discuss the aesthetic of permaculture and food forest.  There is an awkward ugly phase but given time, it will get better.  Most people give up while it is still in the ugly stage.  Paul mentions that many people are worried about what their neighbors will think, especially since most people are expecting weed free areas and straight rows.

Paul and Geoff finish up by talking about the magical world of swales. They are not just for warm climates any more. If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

At the time of the interview, Geoff is in the Dead Sea valley in Jordan. He is near the original Greening the Desert site, which he and Paul discuss along with the new Greening the Desert site, which is now 4 years in and funded by teaching courses. They have a few interns and if you are interested, you can check out the Greening the Desert Internship page.

They also discuss how Geoff’s Food Forest DVD has taken the world by storm. Geoff is in the process of making a new film about food forests in cold and dry climates, with more in depth films on each climate in the future.

Geoff talks about how he was a part of the Permaculture Convergence in Northern California where he did a talk and a 5-day workshop. Then they discuss TEDx San Francisco where Geoff talked about Resilient Cities and the counter culture.

Paul and Geoff jump right into talking about Geoff’s new website, GeoffLawton.com and his new video “How to Survive the Coming Crisis.” They discuss getting the word permaculture and permaculture ideals in the minds of more people.

There are also plans to show some of Geoff’s videos in China, 10 countries in Africa and get some of the videos in Arabic. It is Geoff’s plan to have up-to-date permaculture information available 24-7. It is time for mainstream media to catch up with permaculture. Geoff tells us about how people are starting to realize that there are food supply issues on the horizon and that we need to look at perennial food forest systems.

Geoff also proclaims that Paul is the Duke of Permaculture.

Paul mentions that he is doing Keynote speech in San Diego in March.

If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Ernie points out that such a system would be risky every time and that it would just be a matter of time before someone forgets a step and causes harm. They all agree that fermentation is a much safer way to add carbon dioxide to the greenhouse atmosphere. They then talk about the issue of having a completely closed system at small scales.

The next subject that they cover in the podcast is the timberframed outhouse that Caleb built for the workshop. They point out that it used Paul’s wheely bin idea. Erica then talks about the different composting toilets they saw on their tour. She expresses how uncomfortable the bucket composting toilets make her because of the risk of reusing the buckets by mistake.

They talk about the risk associated with handling poop and different safe composting toilet designs. They conclude the podcast by all agreeing that it is better to design systems that work for people as they currently are instead of people changing to work the system.

If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul Wheaton is with Ernie and Erica Wisner. They talk about the Rocket Mass Heater workshop held at Caleb and Krista’s in Missoula at the end of October 2012. They point out that it was a great success that brought together many interesting people with varied skills.

Ernie and Erica talk about how they travelled across the country to give workshops. They talk about some Rocket Mass Heaters they troubleshooted. They point out that it is difficult to get the manifold right the first time, especially since it is not necessarily clear in the Rocket Mass Heater book. Paul points out that Ernie and Erica have very complete plans available and that the Rocket Mass Heater described in those have been in used for at least one year without any issues.

Paul, Ernie and Erica then move on to the controversial hot water Rocket Mass Heater, also known as boom-squish. They emphasize that it is extremely dangerous and that unless one has lots of experience with pressurized hot water, one should not attempt to build such a system. On the other hand they point out that non-pressurized systems are much safer.

They talk about the big reveal that was one of the highlights of the workshop: a shippable Rocket Mass Heater core, manifold and barrel. They explain that the core is made out of a castable ceramic and that the system is 80% hotter than regular Rocket Mass Heater.

They also talk about few Kickstarters that are about to be launched: Two for the shippable Rocket Mass Heater and some for DVDs of the workshop.

This podcast continues in part 2.

If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Heath talks about what the poplar project site looked like before he started and describes the planting technique he used for the poplars. He says that after only 4 years, one can see that soil is starting to build. Paul points out that the project is very much a monocrop. Heath agrees and explains that he was able to convince the authorities to also plant few other species. He points out that many volunteer species are starting to show up as well: elm, Russian olives, rose bushes, etc.

They go on and try to predict what the site will look like in the future. Heath says that in 40 years or so the canopy should start to close, which will change the composition of the ground cover. Paul predicts that after 120 years, heavy metals will have accumulated to a point where the trees cannot grow anymore.

Heath mentions that the current plan is to use the wood after about 12 years. Paul and him talk about a safer way to use the wood than making hard wood floors.

Heath talks about fungus breaking down chemicals and chelation methods for heavy metals.

They talk about all that is not known and the risk of screwing up the project because of the unknown unknowns.

Paul and Heath then talk about eliminating centralized poop treatment and the risk of some people screwing up the river by doing composting toilets wrong.

If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

They talk about the poplar project of the Missoula wastewater treatment plant to process poop Kool-Aid by putting it on a plot of poplar trees as a way to reduce the amount of affluent going into the Clark Fork river.

Heath talks about the evolution of the wastewater treatment plant from the opening in 1962. He mentions that the plant includes very expensive technology that takes lots of energy and money to maintain and upgrade.

They talk about the negative effects of wastewater on waterways due to their pharmaceutical, heavy metals, chemicals, and nutrients content. He explains that the idea with the trees to use the nutrients instead of sending them in the river where they would be in excess. In the water, the nutrients are almost only processed by bacteria and can cause algal blooms. On the other hand, the trees use the nutrients for growth, will bind chemicals and pharmaceuticals and will build soil over time which in turn will take more water and nutrients. They list a few poop beast that could be used: poplar, cotton wood, willow.

Heath talks about the issue with water volume in sewage treatment plants. He and Paul explain that the volume issue can be mitigated by putting an aerator on the kitchen sink faucet, using low flow shower heads, installing greywater systems, going poo-less. Paul suggests a scale where 1 would be reducing the water going in the sewer and 10 would be composting toilet with urine diversion and greywater system (eliminating the need for sewers).

Paul and Heath emphasize that it is not a good idea to use the compost from the trees growing on sewage sludge on food crops. They also mention their concerns on using the wood from the poop beasts because of the pharmaceutical, heavy metals and chemicals that can end up in it. They mention that it would be fine to use wood and compost from the poop beasts if you know what was in the poop which is not the case with city affluent.

This podcast continues in part 2.

If you would like to discuss this podcast, come on out at the forum at Permies.com.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

He talks about the Bullet Proof Executive. He mentions that he thinks like that author that grass fed beef is the healthiest food in a supermarket. Paul’s opinion is that grass fed beef is the only polyculture food in there.

He goes on and talk about the food from Sepp Holzer’s project in Dayton, MT. He recalls a discussion with Michael, the land manager, about how food grown in polyculture should be sold at a premium because it is healthier and tastier. He also talks about the importance of not irrigating for better taste and nutrition.

Paul gives an update on the land search and mentions that Kickstarter does not allow for real estate. His plan is now to do 2 DVD on Kickstarter. One of them will be about growing a lemon tree in Montana.

Paul is looking for seeds for his new farm: low tannin acorns, Meyer lemon seeds, etc. Start a thread at Permies.com if you have any.

Paul expresses his new theory on why the permaculture bigs are cranky people. He talks about needing an assistant.

He finishes the podcast with some thoughts on cancer and an update from Helen Atthowe.

Note:

The Kickstarters has not been started yet.
Paul is in the middle of paperwork with buying land.
An assistant has been found but volunteers are much needed.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Eivind and Paul talk about community and how who you are with and not where you are is what makes a difference. Eivind gets poetic and says that permaculture can create a garden of Eden anywhere. They talk about aesthetic and of Friendly Haven Rise farm.

They end the podcast talking about next year’s tour.

If you like this sort of things come on at the forums at Permies.com

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Then they talk about the Phoenix portion where Paul did his ”Thirty tinkerers in thirty minute” presentation. Eivind mentioned that he thought urban permaculture was the most prevalent in this area.

After they left the Phoenix area, they went to Boulder, UT where Paul did his last presentation of this permaculture tour: “Making the Big Bucks with Permaculture”. Paul, Jocelyn and Eivind comment on how there is overlap between Paul’s audience and Jack Spirko’s at The Survival Podcast. Paul also praises Jack for his videos on permaculture. In Boulder, they also visited a farm: True Nature Farm.

On their way back to Missoula, they visited with Andrew Monkhouse who was part of podcast 100 on CFL Compact Fluorescent lightbulbs.

The last part of the podcast is about the post Permaculture tour portion where Paul, Jocelyn, and Eivind went to Place of Gathering in Dayton, MT to look at the Hugelkulture beds Sepp Holzer built in May 2012. Those beds are filled with polycultures of carrots, kale, mustards, etc.

The tour ends with a visit to Mike Oehler.

If you like this sort of things come on at the forums at Permies.com

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

They talk about Glenn Kangiser’s cabin, THE most documented Oehler structure (Podcast 215). They mention about the multiple mechanical issues they had with the land whale, then talk about next year’s tour. Eivind expresses how much better it is to actually visit the different places than to watch the YouTube videos or listen to the podcasts.

Paul, Jocelyn, and Eivind talk about the Santa Barbara portion where they visited with Art Ludwig and where Paul did a presentation. Then they talk about Bill Schnieders (Podcast 162).

They recall the Los Angeles portion where they checked out the Edendale Farm, an urban permaculture site with Welsh Harlequin ducks, Muscovy ducks, Black Soldier Fly larvae breeding ground next to red wigglers, double chamber cob oven, a porta potty converted in a 5 gallon buckets composting toilet, aquaponics, a gorgeous tipi and much more.

In the San Diego area they visited Paul and Molly Varese’s farm, a conventional farm growing rare fruits, and Joey Delia’s permaculture farm.

Lastly Paul goes into details about how to catch or remove cold air.

Note: Podcast 217 and 218 are the Art Ludwig ones. Podcast 216 is…well… the mystery podcast!

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul steers their conversation toward wicking and clay soils, describing how moisture can wick from a distance and why it’s necessary to stop the extraneous environmental moisture from reaching the inner weight-bearing logs. Glenn details for Paul his problems with frame stability, foundation depth, California earthquakes and the Oehler structure’s Achilles’ heel: flood, poor drainage and gophers.

As it stands, Glenn’s cozy economic home has ample room for two plus guests, and Paul portrays the masterpiece as a work of art, something tangible that city houses with white square walls cannot compare too. With the cost well under $5000 for 2200 sq ft, Glenn’s basic structure costs next to nothing if you take your time, even cut your own lumber, but especially by crafting the home yourself without the expense of an outside contractor.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

They also talk about other stops on the tour.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Anna Birkas who is in the process of writing a book called “How to Pee Without TP”, leads the conversation and describes in great detail the methods and maintenance of peeing in the great outdoors and doing so comfortably. She is also designing a line of pants for women that allow them to pee more easily when outdoors.

Jocelyn adds her views and observations as well.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

They revisit some of the things they have seen on the different farms they have visited. Paul tells of having his first orange off of a tree, some of the chicken paddocks they saw and livestock guard dogs in the paddocks with the animals, and how to get through an electro fence without turning it off.

Eivind then discusses the progress of some of the orchards, and Paul tells the story of this kid who at the age of seven developed his own method and ideas of raising rare chickens and then sheep for wool production.

Then the discussion moves to their present location which one of their specialties is growing peaches.
They end the podcast discussing monoculture, polyculture and how it applies to orchards, along with some of the suggestions that Paul had for the orchards.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Environment and climate also play a large part in the success or failure of permaculture techniques and that permaculture exists as a holistic “Way” of looking at the environment and “helping” things grow as opposed to “making” things grow. It is the idea that permaculture is an ever evolving set of techniques and ideas that further the development of self-sustaining agriculture, rather than a final solution.

The practical application of permaculture techniques and knowledge should be considered as an ongoing process that requires actual implementation on one’s own, rather than speculation borne of reading and accumulating ideas without experimentation and application.

Even in the most successful of permaculture environments it would be practically impossible to find a completely self-sufficient farm because many of the tools and equipment are not manufactured on site.

Prior to that they discussed cleaning with vinegar, using Kombucha as a cleaning solution and avoiding lye in cleaning products. The conversation progressed to farming techniques such as growing hops for shade, how to persevere when things go wrong, distribution labor in a farming environment and using electric fencing for swine.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.

Paul talks with the folks of Dell Artemis farm about planning, goal setting, and structuring holistic resource management, along with leadership roles and decision making processes.

This post comes from the RichSoil.com Permaculture Blog.